Increased US Domestic Oil Drilling will not lower prices: The Market is an Oligopoly!!!!

[Tom Jigme Wheat]

Discussion regarding the The DOD's acceptance of Climate Change poses
a national security threat, and its plans to transition to alternative
fuel sources. Includes excerpts and link to the 2011 Quadrennial
Defense Review. Focus, on cyber security, climate change and
identifying redundancies in the private contractor DOD-supply chain,
and strengthening export controls.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread/thread/51744d8ad89b80df/9abe668f877a5a9c?lnk=raot#9abe668f877a5a9c

On Jun 19, 10:26 am, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking

What you dont seem to realize is that your total demonization of
government, i.e., the liberal Keynesian Welfare State invites only one

This kind of line of argument is we're in five wars, have bases in
just about every country, are 14 trillion plus dollars of debt, all
our entitlements are broke, have a giant prison population, etc.

Correction we are in 2 wars and one police action in Libya. According
to the Quadrennial Defense Review, all combat operations in Iraq will
cease at the end of this year..
Your isolationist stance regarding the preeminent role of the USA in
world affairs if immplemented would take us back to the isolationist
Republican Congressional movement of the 1930's, which allowed for the
destabilizing rise of the NAZI's that thrust the world into Global
War. Republican Senator, John Mccain on ABC's This Week, with
Christiane Amanpour, invoked this same analogy, lambasting Freshman
Republican's in the House for advocating this kind of argument.
Regarding US military bases abroad, the geopolitical implications of
the US withdrawing from E. Asia or the Middle East would be
disasterous to our National Security. Regarding troops in Europe, I
think we could afford to shutter some bases there, and let the
Europeans take the lead in managing their regional security. However,
the US cannot afford to withdraw the nuclear umbrella from Europe,
given the large numbers of tactical nuclear weapons the Russians have
deployed near the borders of Europe. The US cannot afford to withdraw
from NATO, however, increased NATO membership, and making European
allies shoulder more of the costs for their collective security is
what we need to do.
Regarding the National Debt, it should be noted that the majority of
the debt was created by Republican Presidents. The last republican
that ran a balanced budget was Dwight D. Eisenhower, and he did so
with the highest rates of the Marginal Income Tax on the rich in the
history of USA. The majority of a national debt was created by Reagan,
GHWB, and George W. Bush (5 trillion). Bill Clinton was the last
Democrat that had a Balanced Budget, and a surplus of approximately
140 billion that was used to pay down the national debt. Unfortunately
for Obama, he is stuck with the deficit raising Bush Tax Cuts
extension till the end of this year.
 I didn't agree with this decision, but You cant blame Obama, the
Legislature votes in tax increases/decreases, and handles
appropiations, and usually this requires a super majority. While the
Bush tax cuts were being debated in december of 2010, Obama was
attempting to get the 66 vote threshold for the New START treaty with
Russia, since we no longer had nuclear weapons inspectors in Russia.
The treaty called for the reduction/decomissioning of 1500 strategic
deployed nuclear weapons, from each country's nuclear arsenals, and
limited Mobile ICBM launchers and the number of nuclear bombers to
about 700 each. If we had not passed the New START treaty, with
Russia, it would have opened up the possibility of nuclear Armageddon,
given that the nuclear black market in the former  Republics of the
old Soviet Union are rather porous, and littered with ex oppurtunistic
KGB appartchiks willing to sell Cold War Russian military hardware to
the highest bidder. With the treaty we now have inspection and
verification on both sides, which begins the process of ridding the
earth of the scourge of Nuclear weapons.
Regarding Entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid), The
funds are in trouble because the economy tanked under Bush, and we are
still stuck with his tax cuts, and so tax revenues to the treasury
department are down dramatically.
You cant balance the Budget, by further decreasing Tax Revenues. Both
Eisenhower and Clinton knew this.
While the republicans claim to have a Job Creation agenda, the only
state that had the highest job increases, was Governor Rick Perry's
Texas, but the majority of those jobs his administration added were
low paying jobs. Texas is attractive to big Business because of the
antiregulatory environment in the state legislature, which incidentlly
is where all of the major US Chemical Companies are located, so its
not suprising that Govenor Perry denies the fact that Global Warming
is occuring, and Texas has one of the lowest standards of water and
air quality in the nation. Governor Perry has openly called for
secession from the Union, which means he has a long term racist agenda
of restoring the Confederacy.
 Also the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both Bush started,
have further drained the treasury, since defense spending is at the
highest level percentage of GDP since World War II, at roughly 750
billion dollars. While I agree that this budget should be cut, I dont
think it would be wise to immediately withdraw from Afghanistan or
Libya.
 Currently the US is engaged with back channel peace negotiations with
the Taliban, and the Karzai government in Kabul. To withdraw
immediately from Afghanistan would severely damage ours or Karzai's
leveraging power in these negotiations. Regarding Libya and Qaddafi,
he has already attacked us twice, i.e., the bombing of Pan Am 103 that
killed 90 americans, and the bombing of a Berlin Disco frequented by
US military personell. Qaddafi also was in the process of developing a
nuclear uranium enrichment program with the help of A. Q. Khan, the
father of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program. While Qaddafi did
dismantle this pprogram, he now has every incentive to attack and
state sponsor terrorist  activities against the West, if NATO allows
him to remain in power.
Also the cost of the Libyan operation is about 1 billion dollars a
month, 10 percent of what we are spending on military operations in
Afghanistan. In reality the US only has a support role in this
operation, the British, French and Italians have taken the lead role
in the NATO operation.

Note: I don't demonize the government. There are clear things it
should be doing(protect individuals
from force and fraud).

Then why would be opposed to the Dodd-Frank Bill, that attempts to
regulate rampant destablising  Financial Speculation on Wall Street,
and sets up the Consumer Protection Bureau, that provides free
education and financial advice to consumers.

so that
future ideologues could argue for bullshit "adult conversations" about
entitlements, when in fact they plan to raid the trustfunds.

A good reason why the government should never have been involved in it
in the first place.

I argue for free market, free will and the right to allow people to
make their own choices and you argue for a giant all controlling, all
powerful government(worst kind of monopoly) that steals from the free
market and taxpayers..

If you are not rich there is no free will in the market place.. It is
an Oligapoly!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly

.And if they have the nerve to say "no" then
they're thrown in jail(or in some cases murdered by FBI agents raiding
their home).

I didnt agree with what happened at Ruby Ridge or Waco. Janet Reno was
a cunt. but you have to remember agencies are not politically
monolithic in nature.  Also You would have to say that Bush himself
used a phony mandate launced by his contrived War on Terror, to allow
the NSA to spy on americans as late as 2005, so he could insure
himself reelection. Also his USA patriot Act, section 802 allowed for
warrantless wiretapping of Anarchists and Environmentalists, and
jailing protestors under national security grounds,
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/how-usa-patriot-act-redefines-d...
while at the same time the reactionary White nationalist movement
recieved little federal attention, despite their role in the second
worst terrorist attack in American History, the Oklahoma City Bombing.

In your view we should never had the Social Security program, or
Medicare

No, I argue that a person should have a choice and should get to
choose where their money goes. If they choose to invest in such
things, then so be it. (Why do you hate free choice and free will?)

Only a sucker or someone who is rich and already is a trust funder
would make that argument. Its the same argument that these corporate
types make about "Right to Work," intiatives trying to trick the
common man into thinking he would have a better deal if he didnt have
to pay union dues. When in fact, union wages in the private sector pay
better,there's guranteed health benefits, and the workers are more
productive as a whole. Regarding your response to the "free choice" of
paying into social security or Medicare, you are in fact, perhaps
unkowingly aping, Dick Armey's Freedom Works, bullshit line, that
workers should have the choice whether to pay into social security.
The fact is if the tax were voluntary we would no longer have social
security or medicare, and life expectancy in the United States would
decline dramatically. For the over 50 percent of americans who will be
dependant on Social Security Medicare, etc., when they retire, this
tempoary illusion of "free choice" becomes the imposition of
tyrannical third world style dominion, with the defunding and or
abolishment of the program, which is Dick Armey's long term plan. So
what you argue for is temporary free choice, and then the determinist
chains of poverty follow suit.
thomaswheat1975
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread...

On Jun 19, 10:26 am, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking

What you dont seem to realize is that your total demonization of
government, i.e., the liberal Keynesian Welfare State invites only one

This kind of line of argument is we're in five wars, have bases in
just about every country, are 14 trillion plus dollars of debt, all
our entitlements are broke, have a giant prison population, etc.

Correction we are in 2 wars and one police action in Libya. According
to the Quadrennial Defense Review, all combat operations in Iraq will
cease at the end of this year..
Your isolationist stance regarding the preeminent role of the USA in
world affairs if immplemented would take us back to the isolationist
Republican Congressional movement of the 1930's, which allowed for the
destabilizing rise of the NAZI's that thrust the world into Global
War. Republican Senator, John Mccain on ABC's This Week, with
Christiane Amanpour, invoked this same analogy, lambasting Freshman
Republican's in the House for advocating this kind of argument.
Regarding US military bases abroad, the geopolitical implications of
the US withdrawing from E. Asia or the Middle East would be
disasterous to our National Security. Regarding troops in Europe, I
think we could afford to shutter some bases there, and let the
Europeans take the lead in managing their regional security. However,
the US cannot afford to withdraw the nuclear umbrella from Europe,
given the large numbers of tactical nuclear weapons the Russians have
deployed near the borders of Europe. The US cannot afford to withdraw
from NATO, however, increased NATO membership, and making European
allies shoulder more of the costs for their collective security is
what we need to do.
Regarding the National Debt, it should be noted that the majority of
the debt was created by Republican Presidents. The last republican
that ran a balanced budget was Dwight D. Eisenhower, and he did so
with the highest rates of the Marginal Income Tax on the rich in the
history of USA. The majority of a national debt was created by Reagan,
GHWB, and George W. Bush (5 trillion). Bill Clinton was the last
Democrat that had a Balanced Budget, and a surplus of approximately
140 billion that was used to pay down the national debt. Unfortunately
for Obama, he is stuck with the deficit raising Bush Tax Cuts
extension till the end of this year.
 I didn't agree with this decision, but You cant blame Obama, the
Legislature votes in tax increases/decreases, and handles
appropiations, and usually this requires a super majority. While the
Bush tax cuts were being debated in december of 2010, Obama was
attempting to get the 66 vote threshold for the New START treaty with
Russia, since we no longer had nuclear weapons inspectors in Russia.
The treaty called for the reduction/decomissioning of 1500 strategic
deployed nuclear weapons, from each country's nuclear arsenals, and
limited Mobile ICBM launchers and the number of nuclear bombers to
about 700 each. If we had not passed the New START treaty, with
Russia, it would have opened up the possibility of nuclear Armageddon,
given that the nuclear black market in the former  Republics of the
old Soviet Union are rather porous, and littered with ex oppurtunistic
KGB appartchiks willing to sell Cold War Russian military hardware to
the highest bidder. With the treaty we now have inspection and
verification on both sides, which begins the process of ridding the
earth of the scourge of Nuclear weapons.
Regarding Entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid), The
funds are in trouble because the economy tanked under Bush, and we are
still stuck with his tax cuts, and so tax revenues to the treasury
department are down dramatically.
You cant balance the Budget, by further decreasing Tax Revenues. Both
Eisenhower and Clinton knew this.
While the republicans claim to have a Job Creation agenda, the only
state that had the highest job increases, was Governor Rick Perry's
Texas, but the majority of those jobs his administration added were
low paying jobs. Texas is attractive to big Business because of the
antiregulatory environment in the state legislature, which incidentlly
is where all of the major US Chemical Companies are located, so its
not suprising that Govenor Perry denies the fact that Global Warming
is occuring, and Texas has one of the lowest standards of water and
air quality in the nation. Governor Perry has openly called for
secession from the Union, which means he has a long term racist agenda
of restoring the Confederacy.
 Also the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both Bush started,
have further drained the treasury, since defense spending is at the
highest level percentage of GDP since World War II, at roughly 750
billion dollars. While I agree that this budget should be cut, I dont
think it would be wise to immediately withdraw from Afghanistan or
Libya.
 Currently the US is engaged with back channel peace negotiations with
the Taliban, and the Karzai government in Kabul. To withdraw
immediately from Afghanistan would severely damage ours or Karzai's
leveraging power in these negotiations. Regarding Libya and Qaddafi,
he has already attacked us twice, i.e., the bombing of Pan Am 103 that
killed 90 americans, and the bombing of a Berlin Disco frequented by
US military personell. Qaddafi also was in the process of developing a
nuclear uranium enrichment program with the help of A. Q. Khan, the
father of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program. While Qaddafi did
dismantle this pprogram, he now has every incentive to attack and
state sponsor terrorist  activities against the West, if NATO allows
him to remain in power.
Also the cost of the Libyan operation is about 1 billion dollars a
month, 10 percent of what we are spending on military operations in
Afghanistan. In reality the US only has a support role in this
operation, the British, French and Italians have taken the lead role
in the NATO operation.

Note: I don't demonize the government. There are clear things it
should be doing(protect individuals
from force and fraud).

Then why would be opposed to the Dodd-Frank Bill, that attempts to
regulate rampant destablising  Financial Speculation on Wall Street,
and sets up the Consumer Protection Bureau, that provides free
education and financial advice to consumers.

so that
future ideologues could argue for bullshit "adult conversations" about
entitlements, when in fact they plan to raid the trustfunds.

A good reason why the government should never have been involved in it
in the first place.

I argue for free market, free will and the right to allow people to
make their own choices and you argue for a giant all controlling, all
powerful government(worst kind of monopoly) that steals from the free
market and taxpayers..

If you are not rich there is no free will in the market place.. It is
an Oligapoly!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly

.And if they have the nerve to say "no" then
they're thrown in jail(or in some cases murdered by FBI agents raiding
their home).

I didnt agree with what happened at Ruby Ridge or Waco. Janet Reno was
a cunt. but you have to remember agencies are not politically
monolithic in nature.  Also You would have to say that Bush himself
used a phony mandate launced by his contrived War on Terror, to allow
the NSA to spy on americans as late as 2005, so he could insure
himself reelection. Also his USA patriot Act, section 802 allowed for
warrantless wiretapping of Anarchists and Environmentalists, and
jailing protestors under national security grounds,
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/how-usa-patriot-act-redefines-d...
while at the same time the reactionary White nationalist movement
recieved little federal attention, despite their role in the second
worst terrorist attack in American History, the Oklahoma City Bombing.

In your view we should never had the Social Security program, or
Medicare

No, I argue that a person should have a choice and should get to
choose where their money goes. If they choose to invest in such
things, then so be it. (Why do you hate free choice and free will?)

Only a sucker or someone who is rich and already is a trust funder
would make that argument. Its the same argument that these corporate
types make about "Right to Work," intiatives trying to trick the
common man into thinking he would have a better deal if he didnt have
to pay union dues. When in fact, union wages in the private sector pay
better,there's guranteed health benefits, and the workers are more
productive as a whole. Regarding your response to the "free choice" of
paying into social security or Medicare, you are in fact, perhaps
unkowingly aping, Dick Armey's Freedom Works, bullshit line, that
workers should have the choice whether to pay into social security.
The fact is if the tax were voluntary we would no longer have social
security or medicare, and life expectancy in the United States would
decline dramatically. For the over 50 percent of americans who will be
dependant on Social Security Medicare, etc., when they retire, this
tempoary illusion of "free choice" becomes the imposition of
tyrannical third world style dominion, with the defunding and or
abolishment of the program, which is Dick Armey's long term plan. So
what you argue for is temporary free choice, and then the determinist
chains of poverty follow suit.
thomaswheat1975
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

[Tom Jigme Wheat]

regarding How Increased US Domestic Oil Drilling will not lower oil
Prices since the prices are set by speculators in the oil derivatives
market, and by OPEC see the link below: 75 responses, also discusses
the US Real Estate Market and impact of the new Affordable Care Act,
and how its repeal adds to the US deficit.

thomaswheat1975

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread/thread/51744d8ad89b80df/9abe668f877a5a9c?lnk=raot#9abe668f877a5a9c

Post by Tom Jigme Wheat
Discussion regarding the The DOD's acceptance of Climate Change poses
a national security threat, and its plans to transition to alternative
fuel sources. Includes excerpts and link to the 2011 Quadrennial
Defense Review. Focus, on cyber security, climate change and
identifying redundancies in the private contractor DOD-supply chain,
and strengthening export controls.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread...

On Jun 19, 10:26 am, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking

What you dont seem to realize is that your total demonization of
government, i.e., the liberal Keynesian Welfare State invites only one

This kind of line of argument is we're in five wars, have bases in
just about every country, are 14 trillion plus dollars of debt, all
our entitlements are broke, have a giant prison population, etc.

Correction we are in 2 wars and one police action in Libya. According
to the Quadrennial Defense Review, all combat operations in Iraq will
cease at the end of this year..
Your isolationist stance regarding the preeminent role of the USA in
world affairs if immplemented would take us back to the isolationist
Republican Congressional movement of the 1930's, which allowed for the
destabilizing rise of the NAZI's that thrust the world into Global
War. Republican Senator, John Mccain on ABC's This Week, with
Christiane Amanpour, invoked this same analogy, lambasting Freshman
Republican's in the House for advocating this kind of argument.
Regarding US military bases abroad, the geopolitical implications of
the US withdrawing from E. Asia or the Middle East would be
disasterous to our National Security. Regarding troops in Europe, I
think we could afford to shutter some bases there, and let the
Europeans take the lead in managing their regional security. However,
the US cannot afford to withdraw the nuclear umbrella from Europe,
given the large numbers of tactical nuclear weapons the Russians have
deployed near the borders of Europe. The US cannot afford to withdraw
from NATO, however, increased NATO membership, and making European
allies shoulder more of the costs for their collective security is
what we need to do.
Regarding the National Debt, it should be noted that the majority of
the debt was created by Republican Presidents. The last republican
that ran a balanced budget was Dwight D. Eisenhower, and he did so
with the highest rates of the Marginal Income Tax on the rich in the
history of USA. The majority of a national debt was created by Reagan,
GHWB, and George W. Bush (5 trillion). Bill Clinton was the last
Democrat that had a Balanced Budget, and a surplus of approximately
140 billion that was used to pay down the national debt. Unfortunately
for Obama, he is stuck with the deficit raising Bush Tax Cuts
extension till the end of this year.
 I didn't agree with this decision, but You cant blame Obama, the
Legislature votes in tax increases/decreases, and handles
appropiations, and usually this requires a super majority. While the
Bush tax cuts were being debated in december of 2010, Obama was
attempting to get the 66 vote threshold for the New START treaty with
Russia, since we no longer had nuclear weapons inspectors in Russia.
The treaty called for the reduction/decomissioning of 1500 strategic
deployed nuclear weapons, from each country's nuclear arsenals, and
limited Mobile ICBM launchers and the number of nuclear bombers to
about 700 each. If we had not passed the New START treaty, with
Russia, it would have opened up the possibility of nuclear Armageddon,
given that the nuclear black market in the former  Republics of the
old Soviet Union are rather porous, and littered with ex oppurtunistic
KGB appartchiks willing to sell Cold War Russian military hardware to
the highest bidder. With the treaty we now have inspection and
verification on both sides, which begins the process of ridding the
earth of the scourge of Nuclear weapons.
Regarding Entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid), The
funds are in trouble because the economy tanked under Bush, and we are
still stuck with his tax cuts, and so tax revenues to the treasury
department are down dramatically.
You cant balance the Budget, by further decreasing Tax Revenues. Both
Eisenhower and Clinton knew this.
While the republicans claim to have a Job Creation agenda, the only
state that had the highest job increases, was Governor Rick Perry's
Texas, but the majority of those jobs his administration added were
low paying jobs. Texas is attractive to big Business because of the
antiregulatory environment in the state legislature, which incidentlly
is where all of the major US Chemical Companies are located, so its
not suprising that Govenor Perry denies the fact that Global Warming
is occuring, and Texas has one of the lowest standards of water and
air quality in the nation. Governor Perry has openly called for
secession from the Union, which means he has a long term racist agenda
of restoring the Confederacy.
 Also the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both Bush started,
have further drained the treasury, since defense spending is at the
highest level percentage of GDP since World War II, at roughly 750
billion dollars. While I agree that this budget should be cut, I dont
think it would be wise to immediately withdraw from Afghanistan or
Libya.
 Currently the US is engaged with back channel peace negotiations with
the Taliban, and the Karzai government in Kabul. To withdraw
immediately from Afghanistan would severely damage ours or Karzai's
leveraging power in these negotiations. Regarding Libya and Qaddafi,
he has already attacked us twice, i.e., the bombing of Pan Am 103 that
killed 90 americans, and the bombing of a Berlin Disco frequented by
US military personell. Qaddafi also was in the process of developing a
nuclear uranium enrichment program with the help of A. Q. Khan, the
father of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program. While Qaddafi did
dismantle this pprogram, he now has every incentive to attack and
state sponsor terrorist  activities against the West, if NATO allows
him to remain in power.
Also the cost of the Libyan operation is about 1 billion dollars a
month, 10 percent of what we are spending on military operations in
Afghanistan. In reality the US only has a support role in this
operation, the British, French and Italians have taken the lead role
in the NATO operation.

Note: I don't demonize the government. There are clear things it
should be doing(protect individuals
from force and fraud).

Then why would be opposed to the Dodd-Frank Bill, that attempts to
regulate rampant destablising  Financial Speculation on Wall Street,
and sets up the Consumer Protection Bureau, that provides free
education and financial advice to consumers.

so that
future ideologues could argue for bullshit "adult conversations" about
entitlements, when in fact they plan to raid the trustfunds.

A good reason why the government should never have been involved in it
in the first place.

I argue for free market, free will and the right to allow people to
make their own choices and you argue for a giant all controlling, all
powerful government(worst kind of monopoly) that steals from the free
market and taxpayers..

If you are not rich there is no free will in the market place.. It is
an Oligapoly!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly

.And if they have the nerve to say "no" then
they're thrown in jail(or in some cases murdered by FBI agents raiding
their home).

I didnt agree with what happened at Ruby Ridge or Waco. Janet Reno was
a cunt. but you have to remember agencies are not politically
monolithic in nature.  Also You would have to say that Bush himself
used a phony mandate launced by his contrived War on Terror, to allow
the NSA to spy on americans as late as 2005, so he could insure
himself reelection. Also his USA patriot Act, section 802 allowed for
warrantless wiretapping of Anarchists and Environmentalists, and
jailing protestors under national security grounds,
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/how-usa-patriot-act-redefines-d...
while at the same time the reactionary White nationalist movement
recieved little federal attention, despite their role in the second
worst terrorist attack in American History, the Oklahoma City Bombing.

In your view we should never had the Social Security program, or
Medicare

No, I argue that a person should have a choice and should get to
choose where their money goes. If they choose to invest in such
things, then so be it. (Why do you hate free choice and free will?)

Only a sucker or someone who is rich and already is a trust funder
would make that argument. Its the same argument that these corporate
types make about "Right to Work," intiatives trying to trick the
common man into thinking he would have a better deal if he didnt have
to pay union dues. When in fact, union wages in the private sector pay
better,there's guranteed health benefits, and the workers are more
productive as a whole. Regarding your response to the "free choice" of
paying into social security or Medicare, you are in fact, perhaps
unkowingly aping, Dick Armey's Freedom Works, bullshit line, that
workers should have the choice whether to pay into social security.
The fact is if the tax were voluntary we would no longer have social
security or medicare, and life expectancy in the United States would
decline dramatically. For the over 50 percent of americans who will be
dependant on Social Security Medicare, etc., when they retire, this
tempoary illusion of "free choice" becomes the imposition of
tyrannical third world style dominion, with the defunding and or
abolishment of the program, which is Dick Armey's long term plan. So
what you argue for is temporary free choice, and then the determinist
chains of poverty follow suit.
thomaswheat1975
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread...

On Jun 19, 10:26 am, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking

What you dont seem to realize is that your total demonization of
government, i.e., the liberal Keynesian Welfare State invites only one

This kind of line of argument is we're in five wars, have bases in
just about every country, are 14 trillion plus dollars of debt, all
our entitlements are broke, have a giant prison population, etc.

Correction we are in 2 wars and one police action in Libya. According
to the Quadrennial Defense Review, all combat operations in Iraq will
cease at the end of this year..
Your isolationist stance regarding the preeminent role of the USA in
world affairs if immplemented would take us back to the isolationist
Republican Congressional movement of the 1930's, which allowed for the
destabilizing rise of the NAZI's that thrust the world into Global
War. Republican Senator, John Mccain on ABC's This Week, with
Christiane Amanpour, invoked this same analogy, lambasting Freshman
Republican's in the House for advocating this kind of argument.
Regarding US military bases abroad, the geopolitical implications of
the US withdrawing from E. Asia or the Middle East would be
disasterous to our National Security. Regarding troops in Europe, I
think we could afford to shutter some bases there, and let the
Europeans take the lead in managing their regional security. However,
the US cannot afford to withdraw the nuclear umbrella from Europe,
given the large numbers of tactical nuclear weapons the Russians have
deployed near the borders of Europe. The US cannot afford to withdraw
from NATO, however, increased NATO membership, and making European
allies shoulder more of the costs for their collective security is
what we need to do.
Regarding the National Debt, it should be noted that the majority of
the debt was created by Republican Presidents. The last republican
that ran a balanced budget was Dwight D. Eisenhower, and he did so
with the highest rates of the Marginal Income Tax on the rich in the
history of USA. The majority of a national debt was created by Reagan,
GHWB, and George W. Bush (5 trillion). Bill Clinton was the last
Democrat that had a Balanced Budget, and a surplus of approximately
140 billion that was used to pay down the national debt. Unfortunately
for Obama, he is stuck with the deficit raising Bush Tax Cuts
extension till the end of this year.
 I didn't agree with this decision, but You cant blame Obama, the
Legislature votes in tax increases/decreases, and handles
appropiations, and usually this requires a super majority. While the
Bush tax cuts were being debated in december of 2010, Obama was
attempting to get the 66 vote threshold for the New START treaty with
Russia, since we no longer had nuclear weapons inspectors in Russia.
The treaty called for the reduction/decomissioning of 1500 strategic
deployed nuclear weapons, from each country's nuclear arsenals, and
limited Mobile ICBM launchers and the number of nuclear bombers to
about 700 each. If we had not passed the New START treaty, with
Russia, it would have opened up the possibility of nuclear Armageddon,
given that the nuclear black market in the former  Republics of the
old Soviet Union are rather porous, and littered with ex oppurtunistic
KGB appartchiks willing to sell Cold War Russian military hardware to
the highest bidder. With the treaty we now have inspection and
verification on both sides, which begins the process of ridding the
earth of the scourge of Nuclear weapons.
Regarding Entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid), The
funds are in trouble because the economy tanked under Bush, and we are
still stuck with his tax cuts, and so tax revenues to the treasury
department are down dramatically.
You cant balance the Budget, by further decreasing Tax Revenues. Both
Eisenhower and Clinton knew this.
While the republicans claim to have a Job Creation agenda, the only
state that had the highest job increases, was Governor Rick Perry's
Texas, but the majority of those jobs his administration added were
low paying jobs. Texas is attractive to big Business because of the
antiregulatory environment in the state legislature, which incidentlly
is where all of the major US Chemical Companies are located, so its
not suprising that Govenor Perry denies the fact that Global Warming
is occuring, and Texas has one of the lowest standards of water and
air quality in the nation. Governor Perry has openly called for
secession from the Union, which means he has a long term racist agenda
of restoring the Confederacy.
 Also the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both Bush started,
have further drained the treasury, since defense spending is at the
highest level percentage of GDP since World War II, at roughly 750
billion dollars. While I agree that this budget should be cut, I dont
think it would be wise to immediately withdraw from Afghanistan or
Libya.
 Currently the US is engaged with back channel peace negotiations with
the Taliban, and the Karzai government in Kabul. To withdraw
immediately from Afghanistan would severely damage ours or Karzai's
leveraging power in these negotiations. Regarding Libya and Qaddafi,
he has already attacked us twice, i.e., the bombing of Pan Am 103 that
killed 90 americans, and the bombing of a Berlin Disco frequented by
US military personell. Qaddafi also was in the process of developing a
nuclear uranium enrichment program with the help of A. Q. Khan, the
father of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program. While Qaddafi did
dismantle this pprogram, he now has every incentive to attack and
state sponsor terrorist  activities against the West, if NATO allows
him to remain in power.
Also the cost of the Libyan operation is about 1 billion dollars a
month, 10 percent of what we are spending on military operations in
Afghanistan. In reality the US only has a support role in this
operation, the British, French and Italians have taken the lead role
in the NATO operation.

Note: I don't demonize the government. There are clear things it
should be doing(protect individuals
from force and fraud).

Then why would be opposed to the Dodd-Frank Bill, that attempts to
regulate rampant destablising  Financial Speculation on Wall Street,
and sets up the Consumer Protection Bureau, that provides free
education and financial advice to consumers.

so that
future ideologues could argue for bullshit "adult conversations" about
entitlements, when in fact they plan to raid the trustfunds.

A good reason why the government should never have been involved in it
in the first place.

I argue for free market, free will and the right to allow people to
make their own choices and you argue for a giant all controlling, all
powerful government(worst kind of monopoly) that steals from the free
market and taxpayers..

If you are not rich there is no free will in the market place.. It is
an Oligapoly!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly

.And if they have the nerve to say "no" then
they're thrown in jail(or in some cases murdered by FBI agents raiding
their home).

I didnt agree with what happened at Ruby Ridge or Waco. Janet Reno was
a cunt. but you have to remember agencies are not politically
monolithic in nature.  Also You would have to say that Bush himself
used a phony mandate launced by his contrived War on Terror, to allow
the NSA to spy on americans as late as 2005, so he could insure
himself reelection. Also his USA patriot Act, section 802 allowed for
warrantless wiretapping of Anarchists and Environmentalists, and
jailing protestors under national security grounds,
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/how-usa-patriot-act-redefines-d...
while at the same time the reactionary White nationalist movement
recieved little federal attention, despite their role in the second
worst terrorist attack in American History, the Oklahoma City Bombing.

In your view we should never had the Social Security program, or
Medicare

No, I argue that a person should have a choice and should get to
choose where their money goes. If they choose to invest in such
things, then so be it. (Why do you hate free choice and free will?)

Only a sucker or someone who is rich and already is a trust funder
would make that argument. Its the same argument that these corporate
types make about "Right to Work," intiatives trying to trick the
common man into thinking he would have a better deal if he didnt have
to pay union dues. When in fact, union wages in the private sector pay
better,there's guranteed health benefits, and the workers are more
productive as a whole. Regarding your response to the "free choice" of
paying into social security or Medicare, you are in fact, perhaps
unkowingly aping, Dick Armey's Freedom Works, bullshit line, that
workers should have the choice whether to pay into social security.
The fact is if the tax were voluntary we would no longer have social
security or medicare, and life expectancy in the United States would
decline dramatically. For the over 50 percent of americans who will be
dependant on Social Security Medicare, etc., when they retire, this
tempoary illusion of "free choice" becomes the imposition of
tyrannical third world style dominion, with the defunding and or
abolishment of the program, which is Dick Armey's long term plan. So
what you argue for is temporary free choice, and then the determinist
chains of poverty follow suit.
thomaswheat1975
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread...Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

[Tom Jigme Wheat]

Post by Tom Jigme Wheat
regarding How Increased US Domestic Oil Drilling will not lower oil
Prices since the prices are set by speculators in the oil derivatives
market, and by OPEC see the link below: 75 responses, also discusses
the US Real Estate Market and impact of the new Affordable Care Act,
and how its repeal adds to the US deficit.
thomaswheat1975

correction the discussion on how increased US Domestic Oil Drilling
will not lower Prices in the US Domestic Market, along with discussion
of the role of derivatives and speculation in the Oil and Real Estate
market, and how the repeal of the Affordable Care Act will add to the
Deficit please see this link: 75 messages exchanged in total with
right wing crypto fascist corporatist tard:
thomaswheat1975

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread/thread/96b8c6e0efc0315d/363a693c1fa3a903?lnk=raot#363a693c1fa3a903

also see quoted text in first post for links regarding The TOKAMAK
Fusion Test Reactor
regarding this project

http://www.pppl.gov/projects/pages/tftr.html

The Tokamak Fusion Test Reactor (TFTR) operated at the Princeton
Plasma Physics Laboratory (PPPL) from 1982 to 1997. TFTR set a number
of world records, including a plasma temperature of 510 million
degrees centigrade -- the highest ever produced in a laboratory, and
well beyond the 100 million degrees required for commercial fusion. In
addition to meeting its physics objectives, TFTR achieved all of its
hardware design goals, thus making substantial contributions in many
areas of fusion technology development.

In December, 1993, TFTR became the world's first magnetic fusion
device to perform extensive experiments with plasmas composed of 50/50
deuterium/tritium -- the fuel mix required for practical fusion power
production. Consequently, in 1994, TFTR produced a world-record 10.7
million watts of controlled fusion power, enough to meet the needs of
more than 3,000 homes. These experiments also emphasized studies of
behavior of alpha particles produced in the deuterium-tritium
reactions. The extent to which the alpha particles pass their energy
to the plasma is critical to the eventual attainment of sustained
fusion.

In 1995, TFTR scientists explored a new fundamental mode of plasma
confinement -- enhanced reversed shear. This new technique involves a
magnetic-field configuration which substantially reduces plasma
turbulence.

the biggest conspiracy of all to block the implementation of a Hot
Fusion nuclear power plant, from becoming viable. Bush slashed the
Fusion Energy budget at Los Alamos national labs. the bottom link will
take you to an archived page from 2004, including all known research
up to that date: Fuckin George Bush Bastard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://fusionenergy.lanl.gov/

thomaswheat1975

Post by Tom Jigme Wheat
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread...

Post by Tom Jigme Wheat
Discussion regarding the The DOD's acceptance of Climate Change poses
a national security threat, and its plans to transition to alternative
fuel sources. Includes excerpts and link to the 2011 Quadrennial
Defense Review. Focus, on cyber security, climate change and
identifying redundancies in the private contractor DOD-supply chain,
and strengthening export controls.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread...

On Jun 19, 10:26 am, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking

What you dont seem to realize is that your total demonization of
government, i.e., the liberal Keynesian Welfare State invites only one

This kind of line of argument is we're in five wars, have bases in
just about every country, are 14 trillion plus dollars of debt, all
our entitlements are broke, have a giant prison population, etc.

Correction we are in 2 wars and one police action in Libya. According
to the Quadrennial Defense Review, all combat operations in Iraq will
cease at the end of this year..
Your isolationist stance regarding the preeminent role of the USA in
world affairs if immplemented would take us back to the isolationist
Republican Congressional movement of the 1930's, which allowed for the
destabilizing rise of the NAZI's that thrust the world into Global
War. Republican Senator, John Mccain on ABC's This Week, with
Christiane Amanpour, invoked this same analogy, lambasting Freshman
Republican's in the House for advocating this kind of argument.
Regarding US military bases abroad, the geopolitical implications of
the US withdrawing from E. Asia or the Middle East would be
disasterous to our National Security. Regarding troops in Europe, I
think we could afford to shutter some bases there, and let the
Europeans take the lead in managing their regional security. However,
the US cannot afford to withdraw the nuclear umbrella from Europe,
given the large numbers of tactical nuclear weapons the Russians have
deployed near the borders of Europe. The US cannot afford to withdraw
from NATO, however, increased NATO membership, and making European
allies shoulder more of the costs for their collective security is
what we need to do.
Regarding the National Debt, it should be noted that the majority of
the debt was created by Republican Presidents. The last republican
that ran a balanced budget was Dwight D. Eisenhower, and he did so
with the highest rates of the Marginal Income Tax on the rich in the
history of USA. The majority of a national debt was created by Reagan,
GHWB, and George W. Bush (5 trillion). Bill Clinton was the last
Democrat that had a Balanced Budget, and a surplus of approximately
140 billion that was used to pay down the national debt. Unfortunately
for Obama, he is stuck with the deficit raising Bush Tax Cuts
extension till the end of this year.
 I didn't agree with this decision, but You cant blame Obama, the
Legislature votes in tax increases/decreases, and handles
appropiations, and usually this requires a super majority. While the
Bush tax cuts were being debated in december of 2010, Obama was
attempting to get the 66 vote threshold for the New START treaty with
Russia, since we no longer had nuclear weapons inspectors in Russia.
The treaty called for the reduction/decomissioning of 1500 strategic
deployed nuclear weapons, from each country's nuclear arsenals, and
limited Mobile ICBM launchers and the number of nuclear bombers to
about 700 each. If we had not passed the New START treaty, with
Russia, it would have opened up the possibility of nuclear Armageddon,
given that the nuclear black market in the former  Republics of the
old Soviet Union are rather porous, and littered with ex oppurtunistic
KGB appartchiks willing to sell Cold War Russian military hardware to
the highest bidder. With the treaty we now have inspection and
verification on both sides, which begins the process of ridding the
earth of the scourge of Nuclear weapons.
Regarding Entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid), The
funds are in trouble because the economy tanked under Bush, and we are
still stuck with his tax cuts, and so tax revenues to the treasury
department are down dramatically.
You cant balance the Budget, by further decreasing Tax Revenues. Both
Eisenhower and Clinton knew this.
While the republicans claim to have a Job Creation agenda, the only
state that had the highest job increases, was Governor Rick Perry's
Texas, but the majority of those jobs his administration added were
low paying jobs. Texas is attractive to big Business because of the
antiregulatory environment in the state legislature, which incidentlly
is where all of the major US Chemical Companies are located, so its
not suprising that Govenor Perry denies the fact that Global Warming
is occuring, and Texas has one of the lowest standards of water and
air quality in the nation. Governor Perry has openly called for
secession from the Union, which means he has a long term racist agenda
of restoring the Confederacy.
 Also the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both Bush started,
have further drained the treasury, since defense spending is at the
highest level percentage of GDP since World War II, at roughly 750
billion dollars. While I agree that this budget should be cut, I dont
think it would be wise to immediately withdraw from Afghanistan or
Libya.
 Currently the US is engaged with back channel peace negotiations with
the Taliban, and the Karzai government in Kabul. To withdraw
immediately from Afghanistan would severely damage ours or Karzai's
leveraging power in these negotiations. Regarding Libya and Qaddafi,
he has already attacked us twice, i.e., the bombing of Pan Am 103 that
killed 90 americans, and the bombing of a Berlin Disco frequented by
US military personell. Qaddafi also was in the process of developing a
nuclear uranium enrichment program with the help of A. Q. Khan, the
father of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program. While Qaddafi did
dismantle this pprogram, he now has every incentive to attack and
state sponsor terrorist  activities against the West, if NATO allows
him to remain in power.
Also the cost of the Libyan operation is about 1 billion dollars a
month, 10 percent of what we are spending on military operations in
Afghanistan. In reality the US only has a support role in this
operation, the British, French and Italians have taken the lead role
in the NATO operation.

Note: I don't demonize the government. There are clear things it
should be doing(protect individuals
from force and fraud).

Then why would be opposed to the Dodd-Frank Bill, that attempts to
regulate rampant destablising  Financial Speculation on Wall Street,
and sets up the Consumer Protection Bureau, that provides free
education and financial advice to consumers.

so that
future ideologues could argue for bullshit "adult conversations" about
entitlements, when in fact they plan to raid the trustfunds.

A good reason why the government should never have been involved in it
in the first place.

I argue for free market, free will and the right to allow people to
make their own choices and you argue for a giant all controlling, all
powerful government(worst kind of monopoly) that steals from the free
market and taxpayers..

If you are not rich there is no free will in the market place.. It is
an Oligapoly!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly

.And if they have the nerve to say "no" then
they're thrown in jail(or in some cases murdered by FBI agents raiding
their home).

I didnt agree with what happened at Ruby Ridge or Waco. Janet Reno was
a cunt. but you have to remember agencies are not politically
monolithic in nature.  Also You would have to say that Bush himself
used a phony mandate launced by his contrived War on Terror, to allow
the NSA to spy on americans as late as 2005, so he could insure
himself reelection. Also his USA patriot Act, section 802 allowed for
warrantless wiretapping of Anarchists and Environmentalists, and
jailing protestors under national security grounds,
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/how-usa-patriot-act-redefines-d...
while at the same time the reactionary White nationalist movement
recieved little federal attention, despite their role in the second
worst terrorist attack in American History, the Oklahoma City Bombing.

In your view we should never had the Social Security program, or
Medicare

No, I argue that a person should have a choice and should get to
choose where their money goes. If they choose to invest in such
things, then so be it. (Why do you

...
read more »- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[Tom Jigme Wheat]

go fuck yourself faggot right wing corporatist neo nazi crypto
fascist, the Market is an Oligopoly, not true atomistic capitalism,
envisioned by Adam Smith.

I've given you a gold mine of information, and all you can do is try
to parrot Glen Beck Orwellian doublespeak. Fact is republicans under
Bush destablised the global geopolitical system by attempting unipolar
and unilateral military actions. Now we are suffering the
consequences. The republic is beset on all sides by transnational
terrorist threats and conventional state sponsors of terror, because
the world smells blood, because they know if the US doesnt vote to
raise the debt limit / ceiling by august 2 nd of this year than all
hell will break loose in the financial markets, interest rates will
skyrocket, elderly and disabled wont get their social security checks,
or sacrifice their medical coverage, and I guess your faggot ass will
be made homeless, and the troops will not be paid or both.

Either way faggots like you just dont get it, you think the solution
is to be found soley in the private sector, read the 2010-2011 QDR,
DOD is having a major supply redundancy and export control violations
among its private contractor networks. There are only 4 major defense
contractors left in the US, so its in their best interest to bleed the
US government dry. You should read this book, "Prophets of War" by
William D. Hartung, it details how Lockheed Martin ripped off the
government all throughout the 70's and 80's and 90's, like charging
600 dollars for toilet seats, and 7000 dollars for coffee makers
aboard bombers, etc., it also goes over the mega mergers in the
defense industry.

In regards to causalties you needle nose pussy fuck doesnt know what
real causalties are. We have lost a total of 5000 troops over 10 years
fighting 2, Bush started wars. In vietnam we lost 58000 troops, in
World War II we lost 400000 troops. This isnt shit you pussy fuck.
However, let me reiterate, the QDR says all troops will be withdrawn
from Iraq by the end of this year, QDR unofficially projects that
Obama will withdraw 5000 - 10000 troops from afghanistan this year,
with final combat troops scheduled to pull out by 2014, if
negotiations with the Child raping, stoning women to death, for
adultry, cutting off their noses for objecting to arranged marriage,
Taliban prove unsuccessful. Eat shit you heartless
faggot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thomaswheat1975


On Jun 19, 10:12 pm, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking

What you dont seem to realize is that your total demonization of
government, i.e., the liberal Keynesian Welfare State invites only one

This kind of line of argument is we're in five wars, have bases in
just about every country, are 14 trillion plus dollars of debt, all
our entitlements are broke, have a giant prison population, etc.

Correction we are in 2 wars and one police action in Libya.

Tell that to the people who have loved ones dying from our attacks,
you psychotic moron.
Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya. That's five countries(That
we know of) with American boots on the ground.

Your isolationist stance

Our current polices are what are really isolating us. (Pick any
country where we have bases and I can guarantee the locals are
protesting us and want us out)

regarding the preeminent role of the USA in world affairs

That era is over. It doesn't work and we're broke.
Let Europe, and the like, defend themselves. (They are more than
capable of it)

if immplemented would take us back to the isolationist
Republican Congressional movement of the 1930's, which allowed for the
destabilizing rise of the NAZI's that thrust the world into Global
War.

?!?!? It's our job to keep the world stable, do you know how crazy
that sounds? (You're insane)
As it stands, the only thing we're making stable in the world is a
violent hatred for the US. Our world cop bs and endless wars on drugs,
terrorism and the like has united the world in a hatred of us.
{...}

Republican Senator, John Mccain on ABC's This Week, with
Christiane Amanpour, invoked this same analogy,

Hey, if you and John McCain want to go fight in Libya .. then by all
means, put your beliefs into action and go to it. The locals will
welcome you with open arms and provide you with what you need to fight
the enemy. (There's nothings stopping you and the thousand of others
who support this war from going to it)
Godspeed.

Regarding US military bases abroad, the geopolitical implications of
the US withdrawing

If we stay on our current course our currency will take a nose dive
and will take down most of the world's economies. What are the
geopolitical implications of that?

Regarding the National Debt, it should be noted that the majority of
the debt was created by Republican Presidents.

Like I said, it was created by progressives who insanely think it's
the job of the US government to make an empire, rule the world and
tell everybody what to do.

Unfortunately
for Obama, he is stuck with the deficit raising Bush Tax Cuts
extension till the end of this year.

You can't bitch about tax cuts while advocating empire. (And the only
reason Obama, our President, would be stuck with anything he opposes
is because he's a shitty leader and on the wrong side of the issues)

 I didn't agree with this decision, but You cant blame Obama

He's a piss poor leader who doesn't know what he's doing. I blame all
his failures on him...And I hate him for the fact that he's not smart
enough to know he's way over his head and needs to step down.

Obama was
attempting to get the 66 vote threshold for the New START treaty with
Russia, since we no longer had nuclear weapons inspectors in Russia.

These treaties are a joke, right along with Russian safeguards,
security, etc. It's just more bs promises that our government has
everything under control. Like it had everything under control before
9/11 and the like. (I wipe my ass with its promises)

Regarding Entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid), The
funds are in trouble because

The payments are in jeopardy because Our government doesn't care about
the money it steals from us and our economy. It waste shitloads of it
on bs like building mosques in Afghanistan and paying whores to learn
not to drink to much in China.

While the republicans claim to have a Job Creation agenda

Both parties are filled with morons who think its the job of our
government to control our economy. (Insane)

 Also the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both Bush started,

And Barack could have ended them, day one. (But he wont do that
because he thinks it's the job of America to transform these countries
into America. He's bat shit Insane)

 Currently the US is engaged with back channel peace negotiations with
the Taliban

What were you saying about the Nazi like regimes? So much for stopping
them... (Insane)

Also the cost of the Libyan operation is about 1 billion dollars

So cheap wars are more acceptable? Especially ones where we are
backing al Qaeda, right? (Insane)

Note: I don't demonize the government. There are clear things it
should be doing(protect individuals
from force and fraud).

Then why would be opposed to the Dodd-Frank Bill, that attempts to regulate

It drives mom and pop operations under and allows the too big to get
even bigger. It tells private citizens what to do with their money and
property. It creates Monopolies. It's a piece of shit bill that was
designed to favor big politically connected corporations. (Which is no
surprise after seeing Dodd and Frank's role in the housing mess)

I argue for free market, free will and the right to allow people to
make their own choices and you argue for a giant all controlling, all
powerful government(worst kind of monopoly) that steals from the free
market and taxpayers..

If you are not rich there is no free will in the market place.. It is
an Oligapoly!!!

Our government(has monopoly on force) has done more to create
monopolies and kill freewill than anything the free market has done or
is doing.
<Your link on Oligapoly at wiki>
For example(Oligapoly), as of fourth quarter 2008, Verizon, AT&T,
Sprint, Nextel, and T-Mobile together control 89% of the US cellular
phone market.
<end>
These companies are perfect examples of what I said above. They are
politically connected, they get shit loads of government cash and tax
breaks, government regulations are designed to protect them and their
market share, they get shitloads of no bid government contracts, etc.

.And if they have the nerve to say "no" then
they're thrown in jail(or in some cases murdered by FBI agents raiding
their home).

I didnt agree with what happened at Ruby Ridge or Waco.

This isn't just those two instances. All Americans have to give our
government its dues. Our government has a complete monopoly on force
and can murder anyone in an instance for no reason at all. (Which is
why it should be limited)
And why it shouldn't be involved in bogus drug wars and the like.

while at the same time the reactionary White nationalist movement
recieved little federal attention

Maybe it would have gotten done if our government wasn't fighting
insane wars, funding our allies defense, locking up millions of people
in a silly drug war, etc)
There is a good chance the bombing would have never happened if our
government had been like it was designed(limited). Same could be said
for 9/11, which Osama claimed was because of the foreign policy you
support.

In your view we should never had the Social Security program, or
Medicare

No, I argue that a person should have a choice and should get to
choose where their money goes. If they choose to invest in such
things, then so be it. (Why do you hate free choice and free will?)

Only a sucker or someone who is rich and already is a trust funder
would make that argument.

I'm for the complete opposite. This is your argument, this is what
you're for.

Its the same argument that these corporate
types make about "Right to Work," intiatives trying to trick the
common man

Nobody is being tricked to do anything. (You're Insane)
<snip crazy ramblings>
You're a psychotic moron.

[Thomas Jigme Wheat]

Post by Tom Jigme Wheat
go fuck yourself faggot right wing corporatist neo nazi crypto
fascist, the Market is an Oligopoly, not true atomistic capitalism,
envisioned by Adam Smith.
I've given you a gold mine of information, and all you can do is try
to parrot Glen Beck Orwellian doublespeak. Fact is republicans under
Bush destablised the global geopolitical system by attempting unipolar
and unilateral military actions. Now we are suffering the
consequences.

latest discussion with the crypto fascist @ this link

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread/thread/96b8c6e0efc0315d/1d4283a4db07e12a?#1d4283a4db07e12a

Post by Tom Jigme Wheat
The republic is beset on all sides by transnational
terrorist threats and conventional state sponsors of terror, because
the world smells blood, because they know if the US doesnt vote to
raise the debt limit / ceiling by august 2 nd of this year than all
hell will break loose in the financial markets, interest rates will
skyrocket, elderly and disabled wont get their social security checks,
or sacrifice their medical coverage, and I guess your faggot ass will
be made homeless, and the troops will not be paid or both.
 Either way faggots like you just dont get it, you think the solution
is to be found soley in the private sector, read the 2010-2011 QDR,
DOD is having a major supply redundancy and export control violations
among its private contractor networks. There are only 4 major defense
contractors left in the US, so its in their best interest to bleed the
US government dry. You should read this book, "Prophets of War" by
William D. Hartung, it details how Lockheed Martin ripped off the
government all throughout the 70's and 80's and 90's, like charging
600 dollars for toilet seats, and 7000 dollars for coffee makers
aboard bombers, etc., it also goes over the mega mergers in the
defense industry.
In regards to causalties you needle nose pussy fuck doesnt know what
real causalties are. We have lost a total of 5000 troops over 10 years
fighting 2, Bush started wars. In vietnam we lost 58000 troops, in
World War II we lost 400000 troops. This isnt shit you pussy fuck.
However, let me reiterate, the QDR says all troops will be withdrawn
from Iraq by the end of this year, QDR unofficially projects that
Obama will withdraw 5000 - 10000 troops from afghanistan this year,
with final combat troops scheduled to pull out by 2014, if
negotiations with the Child raping, stoning women to death, for
adultry, cutting off their noses for objecting to arranged marriage,
Taliban prove unsuccessful. Eat shit you heartless
faggot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thomaswheat1975
On Jun 19, 10:12 pm, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking

What you dont seem to realize is that your total demonization of
government, i.e., the liberal Keynesian Welfare State invites only one

This kind of line of argument is we're in five wars, have bases in
just about every country, are 14 trillion plus dollars of debt, all
our entitlements are broke, have a giant prison population, etc.

Correction we are in 2 wars and one police action in Libya.

Tell that to the people who have loved ones dying from our attacks,
you psychotic moron.
Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya. That's five countries(That
we know of) with American boots on the ground.

Your isolationist stance

Our current polices are what are really isolating us. (Pick any
country where we have bases and I can guarantee the locals are
protesting us and want us out)

regarding the preeminent role of the USA in world affairs

That era is over. It doesn't work and we're broke.
Let Europe, and the like, defend themselves. (They are more than
capable of it)

if immplemented would take us back to the isolationist
Republican Congressional movement of the 1930's, which allowed for the
destabilizing rise of the NAZI's that thrust the world into Global
War.

?!?!? It's our job to keep the world stable, do you know how crazy
that sounds? (You're insane)
As it stands, the only thing we're making stable in the world is a
violent hatred for the US. Our world cop bs and endless wars on drugs,
terrorism and the like has united the world in a hatred of us.
{...}

Republican Senator, John Mccain on ABC's This Week, with
Christiane Amanpour, invoked this same analogy,

Hey, if you and John McCain want to go fight in Libya .. then by all
means, put your beliefs into action and go to it. The locals will
welcome you with open arms and provide you with what you need to fight
the enemy. (There's nothings stopping you and the thousand of others
who support this war from going to it)
Godspeed.

Regarding US military bases abroad, the geopolitical implications of
the US withdrawing

If we stay on our current course our currency will take a nose dive
and will take down most of the world's economies. What are the
geopolitical implications of that?

Regarding the National Debt, it should be noted that the majority of
the debt was created by Republican Presidents.

Like I said, it was created by progressives who insanely think it's
the job of the US government to make an empire, rule the world and
tell everybody what to do.

Unfortunately
for Obama, he is stuck with the deficit raising Bush Tax Cuts
extension till the end of this year.

You can't bitch about tax cuts while advocating empire. (And the only
reason Obama, our President, would be stuck with anything he opposes
is because he's a shitty leader and on the wrong side of the issues)

 I didn't agree with this decision, but You cant blame Obama

He's a piss poor leader who doesn't know what he's doing. I blame all
his failures on him...And I hate him for the fact that he's not smart
enough to know he's way over his head and needs to step down.

Obama was
attempting to get the 66 vote threshold for the New START treaty with
Russia, since we no longer had nuclear weapons inspectors in Russia.

These treaties are a joke, right along with Russian safeguards,
security, etc. It's just more bs promises that our government has
everything under control. Like it had everything under control before
9/11 and the like. (I wipe my ass with its promises)

Regarding Entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid), The
funds are in trouble because

The payments are in jeopardy because Our government doesn't care about
the money it steals from us and our economy. It waste shitloads of it
on bs like building mosques in Afghanistan and paying whores to learn
not to drink to much in China.

While the republicans claim to have a Job Creation agenda

Both parties are filled with morons who think its the job of our
government to control our economy. (Insane)

 Also the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both Bush started,

And Barack could have ended them, day one. (But he wont do that
because he thinks it's the job of America to transform these countries
into America. He's bat shit Insane)

 Currently the US is engaged with back channel peace negotiations with
the Taliban

What were you saying about the Nazi like regimes? So much for stopping
them... (Insane)

Also the cost of the Libyan operation is about 1 billion dollars

So cheap wars are more acceptable? Especially ones where we are
backing al Qaeda, right? (Insane)

Note: I don't demonize the government. There are clear things it
should be doing(protect individuals
from force and fraud).

Then why would be opposed to the Dodd-Frank Bill, that attempts to regulate

It drives mom and pop operations under and allows the too big to get
even bigger. It tells private citizens what to do with their money and
property. It creates Monopolies. It's a piece of shit bill that was
designed to favor big politically connected corporations. (Which is no
surprise after seeing Dodd and Frank's role in the housing mess)

I argue for free market, free will and the right to allow people to
make their own choices and you argue for a giant all controlling, all
powerful government(worst kind of monopoly) that steals from the free
market and taxpayers..

If you are not rich there is no free will in the market place.. It is
an Oligapoly!!!

Our government(has monopoly on force) has done more to create
monopolies and kill freewill than anything the free market has done or
is doing.
<Your link on Oligapoly at wiki>
For example(Oligapoly), as of fourth quarter 2008, Verizon, AT&T,
Sprint, Nextel, and T-Mobile together control 89% of the US cellular
phone market.
<end>
These companies are perfect examples of what I said above. They are
politically connected, they get shit loads of government cash and tax
breaks, government regulations are designed to protect them and their
market share, they get shitloads of no bid government contracts, etc.

.And if they have the nerve to say "no" then
they're thrown in jail(or in some cases murdered by FBI agents raiding
their home).

I didnt agree with what happened at Ruby Ridge or Waco.

This isn't just those two instances. All Americans have to give our
government its dues. Our government has a complete monopoly on force
and can murder anyone in an instance for no reason at all. (Which is
why it should be limited)
And why it shouldn't be involved in bogus drug wars and the like.

while at the same time the reactionary White nationalist movement
recieved little federal attention

Maybe it would have gotten done if our government wasn't fighting
insane wars, funding our allies defense, locking up millions of people
in a silly drug war, etc)
There is a good chance the bombing would have never happened if our
government had been like it was designed(limited). Same could be said
for 9/11, which

...
read more »- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[PaxPerPoten]

The Idiot from LaLa land dresses up in his finest feathers for the Gay
parade and then posts to itself? Wow.. Drugs and Homo DNA...Not a good mix.

It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster

[PaxPerPoten]

Post by Tom Jigme Wheat
go fuck yourself faggot right wing corporatist neo nazi crypto
fascist, the Market is an Oligopoly, not true atomistic capitalism,
envisioned by Adam Smith.

I think it is time for you to go back to sucking dicks and selling your
drugs on the corner and leaving these decisions to real Americans.


Perhaps NAMBLA would appreciate your upchuck more then I/we do.

It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster

[Tom Jigme Wheat]

In response to this Corporatist crypto fascists comments here: He
hasnt debunked shit, he just keeps changing the subject:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/65254c69e0bd3b3e

So it is you who are living in denial. Come August 2 2011, if the
government doesnt vote to raise the debt ceiling, your astroturfing,
parroting David Koch, feeble mind wont get your trust fund check:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-06-15-debt-limit-debate_n.htm

excerpts for the right wing tards who dont know how to read an article
for themselves:

"Debate over U.S. debt limit is going down to the wire

"In just seven weeks, America could run out of borrowed money.

Exactly one month ago, the Treasury Department began issuing IOUs
rather than bonds to some government pension funds. That allowed for
continued auctions of so-called "risk-free" Treasury bonds until Aug.
2.

Unless Congress acts by then, the world's richest nation — unable to
borrow $4 billion a day to pay its bills — would risk default.

To hear Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner tell it, interest rates
would spike, stock and home values would sink, savings and investment
would dry up, jobs would disappear, businesses would fail, and
everything from tax refunds to troops' salaries would go unpaid.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke says it would lead to "severe
disruptions" in financial markets, lower credit ratings and damage to
the dollar and Treasury securities.

The centrist Democratic think tank Third Way claims the gyrations in
labor, financial and stock markets would cost 642,500 jobs, add
$19,175 to every mortgage in process and lop $8,816 from the typical
401(k) account.

Now comes the need to increase the government's $14.3 trillion debt
limit — the amount of money it can owe creditors ranging from China to
the Social Security Trust Fund. The ceiling was reached May 16, and
only action by a reluctant Congress can raise it.

The federal government relies on borrowed money like a fish needs
water. Threaten to take it away, and you risk a global crisis with
economic, political, diplomatic and even moral implications.

What happens if America can't pay its bills?

"Nobody knows what would happen, but why in the world would you want
to try to find out?" says David Walker, the former U.S. comptroller
general now heading the fiscal watchdog group Comeback America
Initiative."

On how your beloved Republicans have contributed the most to the
national debt

"In the past half-century, Congress has acted 78 times to raise,
extend or revise the debt limit — the amount of money the government
can borrow to repay bond holders. The red ink has risen 49 times under
Republican presidents, 29 times under Democrats. It's gone up 10 times
since 2001"

On How ronald reagan tripled the national debt on his watch:

"The Obama administration has taken to citing Ronald Reagan's
promotion of debt ceiling increases as proof that it's not just a
Democrat's desire. Indeed, it was Reagan's defense buildup and tax
cuts, along with a major recession, that helped triple the debt on his
watch, to nearly $3 trillion — half the size of the economy at that
time."

Comparison of Clinton and Bush, Clinton ran a budget surplus, Bush,
was a deficit spender:

"Four years of economic boom at the end of Bill Clinton's
administration produced historic budget surpluses and reduced the debt
as a percentage of the economy to 56%. But the accumulated interest
costs still caused the debt to rise to $5.7 trillion.

From there, it took off.

George W. Bush's tax cuts, wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and expansion
of Medicare to include prescription drugs were deficit-financed,
sending the debt past $10 trillion"

"The recession and Obama's economic stimulus package in 2009 sent it
higher still. And in December, Obama agreed to extend the Bush tax
cuts through 2012.

Today the debt isn't just a problem because of its size. Nearly half
of the $9.7 trillion "public" debt — as opposed to the $4.6 trillion
held by the Social Security trust fund and other government accounts —
is owned by foreign investors. Nearly half of that $4.5 trillion can
be traced to two countries, China and Japan."

on the republican plan for more corporate welfare tax cuts for the
rich and slashing Medicare and medicaid to pay for it:

"Because of those rising interest costs and a growing, aging
population, even the deficit-reduction plans floated by Republicans,
the White House and various outside groups wouldn't stop the debt from
growing.

The most draconian — House Republicans' plan to slash $4.4 trillion
from the deficit in the next decade, then transform Medicare into a
voucher-like program — projects a $16.2 trillion debt next year. By
2021, even with all the cuts, it would be $23 trillion.

"This problem," says Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., a leader of a bipartisan
Senate effort to control the debt, "just gets exponentially worse."

The Treasury Department makes about 1 billion payments a year, 80
million a month. Without borrowing authority, some payments couldn't
be made.

Obama and Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid control two-thirds of
the negotiations, but Republican House Speaker John Boehner is in the
driver's seat.

on how the republicans just want to give more corporate welfare to the
rich:

"Republicans are insisting that entitlement programs such as Medicare
and Medicaid be included in the cuts, but that tax increases be left
out.

Obama wants to target tax breaks enjoyed by oil companies and others,
and he's pushing for a "debt cap" aimed at locking in the savings over
five years by forcing automatic reductions if needed."

On how US government default would be disasterous to the credit
markets:

"As Aug. 2 nears, it becomes less likely that a deal to raise the debt
limit can get through Congress in time. That means a short-term
extension would be needed to avoid default.

The deadlocked debate has spooked financial markets and all three
major financial ratings agencies. Pimco, the world's largest bond
investor, unloaded its U.S. government debt in March.

"It's a very dangerous game of roulette that we're playing right now,"
says Neel Kashkari, Pimco's managing director.

Standard & Poor's put the government on notice in April that its
triple-A rating was in jeopardy. Moody's Investors Service warned this
month of a similar downgrade. Fitch Ratings says Treasury bonds could
be rated as "junk" by August.

Among the world's nearly 20 AAA-rated nations, "the U.S. really is the
only one that has not yet adopted a serious plan to reverse the upward
path of the debt," says Steven Hess, senior credit officer at Moody's.

Default clocks and payment plans

That failure has at least some lawmakers preparing for default —
something Congressional Budget Office director Douglas Elmendorf calls
"a dangerous gamble."

One school of thought: It would never happen. The Treasury Department
would find some way to extend the clock. Geithner's Aug. 2 deadline
isn't real.

Geithner counters that as soon as the nation failed to pay any of its
bills on time — from salaries and contracts to tax refunds — "the
world would recognize it as a first-ever failure by the United States
to meet its commitments."

no go run and hide you stupid fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thomaswheat1975

message archived here:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread/thread/96b8c6e0efc0315d/65254c69e0bd3b3e?#65254c69e0bd3b3e

"


"

Post by Tom Jigme Wheat
go fuck yourself faggot right wing corporatist neo nazi crypto
fascist, the Market is an Oligopoly, not true atomistic capitalism,
envisioned by Adam Smith.
I've given you a gold mine of information, and all you can do is try
to parrot Glen Beck Orwellian doublespeak. Fact is republicans under
Bush destablised the global geopolitical system by attempting unipolar
and unilateral military actions. Now we are suffering the
consequences. The republic is beset on all sides by transnational
terrorist threats and conventional state sponsors of terror, because
the world smells blood, because they know if the US doesnt vote to
raise the debt limit / ceiling by august 2 nd of this year than all
hell will break loose in the financial markets, interest rates will
skyrocket, elderly and disabled wont get their social security checks,
or sacrifice their medical coverage, and I guess your faggot ass will
be made homeless, and the troops will not be paid or both.
 Either way faggots like you just dont get it, you think the solution
is to be found soley in the private sector, read the 2010-2011 QDR,
DOD is having a major supply redundancy and export control violations
among its private contractor networks. There are only 4 major defense
contractors left in the US, so its in their best interest to bleed the
US government dry. You should read this book, "Prophets of War" by
William D. Hartung, it details how Lockheed Martin ripped off the
government all throughout the 70's and 80's and 90's, like charging
600 dollars for toilet seats, and 7000 dollars for coffee makers
aboard bombers, etc., it also goes over the mega mergers in the
defense industry.
In regards to causalties you needle nose pussy fuck doesnt know what
real causalties are. We have lost a total of 5000 troops over 10 years
fighting 2, Bush started wars. In vietnam we lost 58000 troops, in
World War II we lost 400000 troops. This isnt shit you pussy fuck.
However, let me reiterate, the QDR says all troops will be withdrawn
from Iraq by the end of this year, QDR unofficially projects that
Obama will withdraw 5000 - 10000 troops from afghanistan this year,
with final combat troops scheduled to pull out by 2014, if
negotiations with the Child raping, stoning women to death, for
adultry, cutting off their noses for objecting to arranged marriage,
Taliban prove unsuccessful. Eat shit you heartless
faggot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thomaswheat1975
On Jun 19, 10:12 pm, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking

What you dont seem to realize is that your total demonization of
government, i.e., the liberal Keynesian Welfare State invites only one

This kind of line of argument is we're in five wars, have bases in
just about every country, are 14 trillion plus dollars of debt, all
our entitlements are broke, have a giant prison population, etc.

Correction we are in 2 wars and one police action in Libya.

Tell that to the people who have loved ones dying from our attacks,
you psychotic moron.
Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya. That's five countries(That
we know of) with American boots on the ground.

Your isolationist stance

Our current polices are what are really isolating us. (Pick any
country where we have bases and I can guarantee the locals are
protesting us and want us out)

regarding the preeminent role of the USA in world affairs

That era is over. It doesn't work and we're broke.
Let Europe, and the like, defend themselves. (They are more than
capable of it)

if immplemented would take us back to the isolationist
Republican Congressional movement of the 1930's, which allowed for the
destabilizing rise of the NAZI's that thrust the world into Global
War.

?!?!? It's our job to keep the world stable, do you know how crazy
that sounds? (You're insane)
As it stands, the only thing we're making stable in the world is a
violent hatred for the US. Our world cop bs and endless wars on drugs,
terrorism and the like has united the world in a hatred of us.
{...}

Republican Senator, John Mccain on ABC's This Week, with
Christiane Amanpour, invoked this same analogy,

Hey, if you and John McCain want to go fight in Libya .. then by all
means, put your beliefs into action and go to it. The locals will
welcome you with open arms and provide you with what you need to fight
the enemy. (There's nothings stopping you and the thousand of others
who support this war from going to it)
Godspeed.

Regarding US military bases abroad, the geopolitical implications of
the US withdrawing

If we stay on our current course our currency will take a nose dive
and will take down most of the world's economies. What are the
geopolitical implications of that?

Regarding the National Debt, it should be noted that the majority of
the debt was created by Republican Presidents.

Like I said, it was created by progressives who insanely think it's
the job of the US government to make an empire, rule the world and
tell everybody what to do.

Unfortunately
for Obama, he is stuck with the deficit raising Bush Tax Cuts
extension till the end of this year.

You can't bitch about tax cuts while advocating empire. (And the only
reason Obama, our President, would be stuck with anything he opposes
is because he's a shitty leader and on the wrong side of the issues)

 I didn't agree with this decision, but You cant blame Obama

He's a piss poor leader who doesn't know what he's doing. I blame all
his failures on him...And I hate him for the fact that he's not smart
enough to know he's way over his head and needs to step down.

Obama was
attempting to get the 66 vote threshold for the New START treaty with
Russia, since we no longer had nuclear weapons inspectors in Russia.

These treaties are a joke, right along with Russian safeguards,
security, etc. It's just more bs promises that our government has
everything under control. Like it had everything under control before
9/11 and the like. (I wipe my ass with its promises)

Regarding Entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid), The
funds are in trouble because

The payments are in jeopardy because Our government doesn't care about
the money it steals from us and our economy. It waste shitloads of it
on bs like building mosques in Afghanistan and paying whores to learn
not to drink to much in China.

While the republicans claim to have a Job Creation agenda

Both parties are filled with morons who think its the job of our
government to control our economy. (Insane)

 Also the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both Bush started,

And Barack could have ended them, day one. (But he wont do that
because he thinks it's the job of America to transform these countries
into America. He's bat shit Insane)

 Currently the US is engaged with back channel peace negotiations with
the Taliban

What were you saying about the Nazi like regimes? So much for stopping
them... (Insane)

Also the cost of the Libyan operation is about 1 billion dollars

So cheap wars are more acceptable? Especially ones where we are
backing al Qaeda, right? (Insane)

Note: I don't demonize the government. There are clear things it
should be doing(protect individuals
from force and fraud).

Then why would be opposed to the Dodd-Frank Bill, that attempts to regulate

It drives mom and pop operations under and allows the too big to get
even bigger. It tells private citizens what to do with their money and
property. It creates Monopolies. It's a piece of shit bill that was
designed to favor big politically connected corporations. (Which is no
surprise after seeing Dodd and Frank's role in the housing mess)

I argue for free market, free will and the right to allow people to
make their own choices and you argue for a giant all controlling, all
powerful government(worst kind of monopoly) that steals from the free
market and taxpayers..

If you are not rich there is no free will in the market place.. It is
an Oligapoly!!!

Our government(has monopoly on force) has done more to create
monopolies and kill freewill than anything the free market has done or
is doing.
<Your link on Oligapoly at wiki>
For example(Oligapoly), as of fourth quarter 2008, Verizon, AT&T,
Sprint, Nextel, and T-Mobile together control 89% of the US cellular
phone market.
<end>
These companies are perfect examples of what I said above. They are
politically connected, they get shit loads of government cash and tax
breaks, government regulations are designed to protect them and their
market share, they get shitloads of no bid government contracts, etc.

.And if they have the nerve to say "no" then
they're thrown in jail(or in some cases murdered by FBI agents raiding
their home).

I didnt agree with what happened at Ruby Ridge or Waco.

This isn't just those two instances. All Americans have to give our
government its dues. Our government has a complete monopoly on force
and can murder anyone in an instance for no reason at all. (Which is
why it should be limited)
And why it shouldn't be involved in bogus drug wars and the like.

while at the same time the reactionary White nationalist movement
recieved little federal attention

Maybe it would have gotten done if our government wasn't fighting
insane wars, funding our allies defense, locking up millions of people
in a silly drug war, etc)
There is a good chance the bombing would have never happened if our
government had been like it was designed(limited). Same could be said
for 9/11, which

...
read more »- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[Tom Jigme Wheat]

On Jun 19, 10:12 pm, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking

What you dont seem to realize is that your total demonization of
government, i.e., the liberal Keynesian Welfare State invites only one

This kind of line of argument is we're in five wars, have bases in
just about every country, are 14 trillion plus dollars of debt, all
our entitlements are broke, have a giant prison population, etc.

Correction we are in 2 wars and one police action in Libya.

Tell that to the people who have loved ones dying from our attacks,
you psychotic moron.

we have lost a total of 5000 people in 10 years in Iraq and
afghanistan. In world war 2 we lost 400000 men. This is nothing!!!!!!

Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya. That's five countries(That
we know of) with American boots on the ground.

All US combat troops will be out of Iraq at the end of the year
according to the QDR; that's a reduction of 50000 troops. In
afghanistan 5000 - 10000 troops will be recalled. Regarding somalia,
we have a few special operations group (SOG) no more than a 100 people
total there. In libya no US military combat troops have been deployed.
Primarily the US is relying on unmanned drone strikes on Qaddafi's
military installations. The majority of the Bombing operations are
being carried out by the British and the french, with Italy in a
logistics supply role!!!!! The US presence in Libya is very minimal,
it is only costing us about a billion a month!!!
You dont know what the fuck you are talking about, dipshit!!!!!!!!!

Your isolationist stance

Our current polices are what are really isolating us. (Pick any
country where we have bases and I can guarantee the locals are
protesting us and want us out)

I highly doubt that europe wants to see american troop withdrawl, but
nevertheless I think we need to make reductions here. The threat of
soviet land invasion has faded with the cold war. However, the
potential for a tactical nuclear strike on europe by russia, means we
must invest more in ballistic missile defense, to compensate for troop
reductions.

regarding the preeminent role of the USA in world affairs

That era is over. It doesn't work and we're broke.
Let Europe, and the like, defend themselves. (They are more than
capable of it)

as I have stated previously and as you attempt to parrot my line when
it suits you, I have already suggested in an earlier post, in this
thread, that Europe you should shoulder more of the costs for NATO,
and that possibly we could close some bases in Germany.

if immplemented would take us back to the isolationist
Republican Congressional movement of the 1930's, which allowed for the
destabilizing rise of the NAZI's that thrust the world into Global
War.

?!?!? It's our job to keep the world stable, do you know how crazy
that sounds? (You're insane)

Look what happened before World war 2, you had UK prime minister
Nevile Chamberlain's appeasement of Nazi germany, and a disaffected
isolationist republican congress, and then Pearl Harbor got bombed. By
the way we suffered more civilian causalties during the 9/11/2001
terrorist attacks then we suffered at pearl harbor!!!!!!!!!!!!

As it stands, the only thing we're making stable in the world is a
violent hatred for the US. Our world cop bs and endless wars on drugs,
terrorism and the like has united the world in a hatred of us.

Oh so now you think you want Ron Paul for president. This is the guy
who said we should legalize heroin. I can see legalization of
marijuana, as a taxable commodity, but nothing else.

{...}

Republican Senator, John Mccain on ABC's This Week, with
Christiane Amanpour, invoked this same analogy,

Hey, if you and John McCain want to go fight in Libya .. then by all
means, put your beliefs into action and go to it. The locals will
welcome you with open arms and provide you with what you need to fight
the enemy. (There's nothings stopping you and the thousand of others
who support this war from going to it)

Iam too old to serve, nonetheless the rank and file in afghanistan is
a crap shoot. Alot of hostile friendly fire causalties. like what
happened to Pat Tillman!!!!!!!!

Godspeed.

Regarding US military bases abroad, the geopolitical implications of
the US withdrawing

If we stay on our current course our currency will take a nose dive
and will take down most of the world's economies. What are the
geopolitical implications of that?

First of all we cant afford to pull out of Japan or south korea.
Secondly we only have roughly 25000 troops in South Korea, and support
operations in Japan. China's rise as an economic superpower along with
their proxy DPRK, N. Korea already possessing nuclear weapons, means
we cant withdraw from that region. Also china has doubled national
defense spending from last years levels!!!!

exactly we have to raise the debt ceiling or the USA's triple AAA bond
rating will be downgraded. Republican plans are worse than the
democrats when it comes to taming the deficit, their plan is just cut
taxes for the rich, and possibly impose a flat tax later, that would
mean you would be paying a 30 percent sales tax on everything, and the
rich would pay nothing since they get the majority of their income
through capital gains!!!!!!!!!

we need deficit reduction, however, there are ways to save the social
safety net and not lower america's standard of living or overall life
expectancy. Your free will theory, doesnt take in account the fact of
the economic deterministic effects on seniors and the poor and
disabled if we dismantled these programs. If the debt limit isn't
raised and your grandma has medicare, she will have no coverage, you
heartless bastard!!! You are like Marie Antoninette, before she got
her head cut off, for saying let the poor eat cake, just like her, you
live in an ivory tower!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regarding the National Debt, it should be noted that the majority of
the debt was created by Republican Presidents.

Like I said, it was created by progressives who insanely think it's
the job of the US government to make an empire, rule the world and
tell everybody what to do.

You really classify republicans as progressives. You are really
stupid!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately
for Obama, he is stuck with the deficit raising Bush Tax Cuts
extension till the end of this year.

You can't bitch about tax cuts while advocating empire. (And the only
reason Obama, our President, would be stuck with anything he opposes
is because he's a shitty leader and on the wrong side of the issues)

your analysis doesnt take an account of the obstructionist congress,
and the fact that the congress votes in tax increases, or decreases,
the president can only propose this, congress holds the purse strings.
How you like supporting people who favor income redistributation from
the middle class to the rich. Moron!!!!!!!!!!

 I didn't agree with this decision, but You cant blame Obama

He's a piss poor leader who doesn't know what he's doing. I blame all
his failures on him...And I hate him for the fact that he's not smart
enough to know he's way over his head and needs to step down.

You just hate Barack Obama cuz he's black!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama was
attempting to get the 66 vote threshold for the New START treaty with
Russia, since we no longer had nuclear weapons inspectors in Russia.

These treaties are a joke, right along with Russian safeguards,
security, etc. It's just more bs promises that our government has
everything under control. Like it had everything under control before
9/11 and the like. (I wipe my ass with its promises)

the alternative to the treaty, would have allowed for increased
proliferation of nuclear weapons by both sides, and we would not be
able to monitor russian compliance with the New Start Treaty or
whether they were honoring NPT, or the fact that security at russian
nuclear missile silos are extremely lax, and that all of the weapons
grade uranium being smuggled on the black market was coming from
russia, so we had to have inspection teams at russian nuke sites to
verify security of their arsenal and to monitor treaty compliance, in
regards to New START. WE also reciprocated by allowing the russians to
verify that we as are they are required to make reductions in our
nuclear arsenals.

Regarding Entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid), The
funds are in trouble because

The payments are in jeopardy because Our government doesn't care about
the money it steals from us and our economy. It waste shitloads of it
on bs like building mosques in Afghanistan and paying whores to learn
not to drink to much in China.

While the republicans claim to have a Job Creation agenda

Both parties are filled with morons who think its the job of our
government to control our economy. (Insane)

 Also the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both Bush started,

And Barack could have ended them, day one. (But he wont do that
because he thinks it's the job of America to transform these countries
into America. He's bat shit Insane)

as stated earlier you have already proven that you are a moral
relativist, and a nihilist!!!!!!!
You want the Taliban to return to power in afghanistan, which is
exactly what will happen if we leave, and then they will be free to
rape children, cut off the noses of young girls who object to arranged
marriages, and stone femal adulterers to death!!!! Not to mention if
we pull out Al qaeda and the Taliban could potentially take over
Pakistan, since the ISI, is riddled with Al qaida sympathizers, and
its just a matter of time if we leave, that they will get a hold of
Pakistan's nuclear arsenal!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Currently the US is engaged with back channel peace negotiations with
the Taliban

What were you saying about the Nazi like regimes? So much for stopping
them... (Insane)

Also the cost of the Libyan operation is about 1 billion dollars

So cheap wars are more acceptable? Especially ones where we are
backing al Qaeda, right? (Insane)

Note: I don't demonize the government. There are clear things it
should be doing(protect individuals
from force and fraud).

Then why would be opposed to the Dodd-Frank Bill, that attempts to regulate

It drives mom and pop operations under and allows the too big to get
even bigger. It tells private citizens what to do with their money and
property. It creates Monopolies. It's a piece of shit bill that was
designed to favor big politically connected corporations. (Which is no
surprise after seeing Dodd and Frank's role in the housing mess)

You are so fuckin ignorant. One of the provisions of the Dodd-Frank
bill limits the amount of swipe fees big banks can charge stores every
time they use their mastercard or visa debit/credit card. Currently
the big banks charge your beloved Mom and Pops stores, 40 cents or
roughly 1 percent of the purchase price every time a customer makes a
purchase at their store, this is in addition to fees charged by
Mastercard and Visa to consumers every time they use their card. The
big banks racked up billions charging these fees. The Dodd-frank bill
with senator Dick Durbin's amendment attached to it would limit the
amount of swipe fee surcharges to 12 cents per transaction.

I argue for free market, free will and the right to allow people to
make their own choices and you argue for a giant all controlling, all
powerful government(worst kind of monopoly) that steals from the free
market and taxpayers..

If you are not rich there is no free will in the market place.. It is
an Oligapoly!!!

Our government(has monopoly on force) has done more to create
monopolies and kill freewill than anything the free market has done or
is doing.

Yah but you bitch about Verizon and AT&T being on the government dole,
when in fact they are not, they just have really good tax attorney's
like Michelle Bachman's of the world, so that Verizon can get of
paying its fair share in taxes cuz of all the loop holes in the tax
code, and becaus the Wireless broadband market is an Oligopoly, with
these two companies, pending AT&T's meger with T-Mobile, means that
now 80 percent of the market will be controlled by 2 companies. Also
AT&T is being sued by consumers in a class action suit, for charging
customers sometimes as much as 300 percent, for iPhone use they never
used!!! That's not capitalism, rather monopolistic
mercantilism!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.itworld.com/networking/166943/suit-charges-att-overcharges-much-300-iphone-data

<Your link on Oligapoly at wiki>
For example(Oligapoly), as of fourth quarter 2008, Verizon, AT&T,
Sprint, Nextel, and T-Mobile together control 89% of the US cellular
phone market.

Yah dip shit here's my link, since all you are capable of is
"primitive accumulation!!!!"

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/lawsuit-claiming-at-t-is-overcharging-iphone-and-ipad-data-usage-may-not-go-to-trial/24927

You should also know that several former republican appointed FCC
commissioners have taken consulting jobs with AT&T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<end>
These companies are perfect examples of what I said above. They are
politically connected, they get shit loads of government cash and tax
breaks, government regulations are designed to protect them and their
market share, they get shitloads of no bid government contracts,

Oh you are talking about Bush's sweet heart deal with former vice
president Dick Cheney's company, Haliburton/ Kellog Brown and Root,
that defrauded the american tax payer in Iraq reconstruction
contracts. Nice of you to be a fuckin moron!!!!!!!!!!!

etc.

They get tax breaks because they have people like Michelle Bachman
representing them.
Analysis: 12 Corporations Pay Effective Tax Rate of Negative 1.5%
on $171 Billion in Profits; Reap $62.4 Billion in Tax Subsidies


http://www.ctj.org/pdf/12corps060111.pdf

-excerpt-


Exxon Mobil, Boeing, Verizon, Others Illustrate Why Revenue-Raising
Reform is Needed

Washington, DC – To better inform the public and lawmakers about how
successful many American corporations have been in reducing or
eliminating their federal income taxes, Citizens for Tax Justice is
releasing a preview of its forthcoming major study of Fortune 500
companies and the taxes they paid — or failed to pay — over the
2008-10 period. Today’s release details the pretax U.S. profits,
federal taxes paid and effective tax rates of (in alphabetical
order):
American Electric Power, Boeing, Dupont, Exxon Mobil, FedEx, General
Electric, Honeywell International, IBM, United Technologies, Verizon
Communications, Wells Fargo and Yahoo.

.And if they have the nerve to say "no" then
they're thrown in jail(or in some cases murdered by FBI agents raiding
their home).

I didnt agree with what happened at Ruby Ridge or Waco.

This isn't just those two instances. All Americans have to give our
government its dues. Our government has a complete monopoly on force
and can murder anyone in an instance for no reason at all. (Which is
why it should be limited)
And why it shouldn't be involved in bogus drug wars and the like.

while at the same time the reactionary White nationalist movement
recieved little federal attention

Maybe it would have gotten done if our government wasn't fighting
insane wars, funding our allies defense, locking up millions of people
in a silly drug war, etc)
There is a good chance the bombing would have never happened if our
government had been like it was designed(limited). Same could be said
for 9/11, which Osama claimed was because of the foreign policy you
support.

In your view we should never had the Social Security program, or
Medicare

No, I argue that a person should have a choice and should get to
choose where their money goes. If they choose to invest in such
things, then so be it. (Why do you hate free choice and free will?)

as usual tards like you resort to the ivory tower musings of the
Bourbon dynasty, before reality sets in and you get guillitoned, i.e.,
thrown from your hypocritical heartless perch!!!!!!!!!!

Only a sucker or someone who is rich and already is a trust funder
would make that argument.

I'm for the complete opposite. This is your argument, this is what
you're for.

Its the same argument that these corporate
types make about "Right to Work," intiatives trying to trick the
common man

Nobody is being tricked to do anything. (You're Insane)

Oh and you argue that the Right to work intiative, isnt really about
tricking people into leaving their unions. Without collective
bargaining workers have no power or leverage regarding their
wages!!!!!!!! Just look at walmart, they are anti-union and so they
pay less than comparably placed unionized retail sector jobs, like in
grocery stores. They also rarely offer health insurance and that's if
you are employed full time, so they will usually schedule you just
under the minimum requirement to qualify for health coverage under
state law so that they dont have to pay you health benefits. I Had
friends who worked at Walmart while going to college, they are the
evil empire!!!!!!!!! The Walton family who owns walmart is
collectively worth 80 billion dollars, and they get the most of their
product from sweatshop Communist chinese labor. You have no idea what
the fuck you are talking about when it comes to free will, neither did
Louis XVI did before he get his head cut off!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eat shit bitch!!!!!!
thomaswheat1975

discussion archived here:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread/thread/96b8c6e0efc0315d/65254c69e0bd3b3e?#65254c69e0bd3b3e

<snip crazy ramblings>
You're a psychotic moron.

[Tom Jigme Wheat]

regarding your stance on the drug war, should we adopt Ron Paul's
alternative which is to legalize heroin, also the market is being
flooded with coke right now pending the approval of Columbian and
Panama Free trade agreements. I think Marijuana should be legalized,
but nothing else. Its estimated that it could generate billions in tax
reserves, for state's struggling with deficits!!!!!

The drug war is really a class war, the transnational cartels, are the
feudalist trailers, of the oligarchs, engineering addiction as a way
to maximise profit and prohibit class mobility!!!!!!!!!
thomaswheat1975

discussion archived here:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/65389faaa5d00230?

Post by Tom Jigme Wheat
On Jun 19, 10:12 pm, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking

What you dont seem to realize is that your total demonization of
government, i.e., the liberal Keynesian Welfare State invites only one

This kind of line of argument is we're in five wars, have bases in
just about every country, are 14 trillion plus dollars of debt, all
our entitlements are broke, have a giant prison population, etc.

Correction we are in 2 wars and one police action in Libya.

Tell that to the people who have loved ones dying from our attacks,
you psychotic moron.

we have lost a total of 5000 people in 10 years in Iraq and
afghanistan. In world war 2 we lost 400000 men. This is nothing!!!!!!

Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya. That's five countries(That
we know of) with American boots on the ground.

All US combat troops will be out of Iraq at the end of the year
according to the QDR; that's a reduction of 50000 troops. In
afghanistan 5000 - 10000 troops will be recalled. Regarding somalia,
we have a few special operations group (SOG) no more than a 100 people
total there. In libya no US military combat troops have been deployed.
Primarily the US is relying on unmanned drone strikes on Qaddafi's
military installations. The majority of the Bombing operations are
being carried out by the British and the french, with Italy in a
logistics supply role!!!!! The US presence in Libya is very minimal,
it is only costing us about a billion a month!!!
You dont know what the fuck you are talking about, dipshit!!!!!!!!!

Your isolationist stance

Our current polices are what are really isolating us. (Pick any
country where we have bases and I can guarantee the locals are
protesting us and want us out)

I highly doubt that europe wants to see american troop withdrawl, but
nevertheless I think we need to make reductions here. The threat of
soviet land invasion has faded with the cold war. However, the
potential for a tactical nuclear strike on europe by russia, means we
must invest more in ballistic missile defense, to compensate for troop
reductions.

regarding the preeminent role of the USA in world affairs

That era is over. It doesn't work and we're broke.
Let Europe, and the like, defend themselves. (They are more than
capable of it)

as I have stated previously and as you attempt to parrot my line when
it suits you, I have already suggested in an earlier post, in this
thread, that Europe you should shoulder more of the costs for NATO,
and that possibly we could close some bases in Germany.

if immplemented would take us back to the isolationist
Republican Congressional movement of the 1930's, which allowed for the
destabilizing rise of the NAZI's that thrust the world into Global
War.

?!?!? It's our job to keep the world stable, do you know how crazy
that sounds? (You're insane)

Look what happened before World war 2, you had UK prime minister
Nevile Chamberlain's appeasement of Nazi germany, and a disaffected
isolationist republican congress, and then Pearl Harbor got bombed. By
the way we suffered more civilian causalties during the 9/11/2001
terrorist attacks then we suffered at pearl harbor!!!!!!!!!!!!

As it stands, the only thing we're making stable in the world is a
violent hatred for the US. Our world cop bs and endless wars on drugs,
terrorism and the like has united the world in a hatred of us.

Oh so now you think you want Ron Paul for president. This is the guy
who said we should legalize heroin. I can see legalization of
marijuana, as a taxable commodity, but nothing else.

{...}

Republican Senator, John Mccain on ABC's This Week, with
Christiane Amanpour, invoked this same analogy,

Hey, if you and John McCain want to go fight in Libya .. then by all
means, put your beliefs into action and go to it. The locals will
welcome you with open arms and provide you with what you need to fight
the enemy. (There's nothings stopping you and the thousand of others
who support this war from going to it)

Iam too old to serve, nonetheless the rank and file in afghanistan is
a crap shoot. Alot of hostile friendly fire causalties. like what
happened to Pat Tillman!!!!!!!!

Godspeed.

Regarding US military bases abroad, the geopolitical implications of
the US withdrawing

If we stay on our current course our currency will take a nose dive
and will take down most of the world's economies. What are the
geopolitical implications of that?

First of all we cant afford to pull out of Japan or south korea.
Secondly we only have roughly 25000 troops in South Korea, and support
operations in Japan. China's rise as an economic superpower along with
their proxy DPRK,  N. Korea already possessing nuclear weapons, means
we cant withdraw from that region. Also china has doubled national
defense spending from last years levels!!!!
exactly we have to raise the debt ceiling or the USA's triple AAA bond
rating will be downgraded. Republican plans are worse than the
democrats when it comes to taming the deficit, their plan is just cut
taxes for the rich, and possibly impose a flat tax later, that would
mean you would be paying a 30 percent sales tax on everything, and the
rich would pay nothing since they get the majority of their income
through capital gains!!!!!!!!!
we need deficit reduction, however, there are ways to save the social
safety net and not lower  america's standard of living or overall life
expectancy. Your free will theory, doesnt take in account the fact of
the economic deterministic effects on seniors and the poor and
disabled if we dismantled these programs. If the debt limit isn't
raised and your grandma has medicare, she will have no coverage, you
heartless bastard!!! You are like Marie Antoninette, before she got
her head cut off, for saying let the poor eat cake, just like her, you
live in an ivory tower!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regarding the National Debt, it should be noted that the majority of
the debt was created by Republican Presidents.

Like I said, it was created by progressives who insanely think it's
the job of the US government to make an empire, rule the world and
tell everybody what to do.

You really classify republicans as progressives. You are really
stupid!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately
for Obama, he is stuck with the deficit raising Bush Tax Cuts
extension till the end of this year.

You can't bitch about tax cuts while advocating empire. (And the only
reason Obama, our President, would be stuck with anything he opposes
is because he's a shitty leader and on the wrong side of the issues)

your analysis doesnt take an account of the obstructionist congress,
and the fact that the congress votes in tax increases, or decreases,
the president can only propose this, congress holds the purse strings.
How you like supporting people who favor income redistributation from
the middle class to the rich. Moron!!!!!!!!!!

 I didn't agree with this decision, but You cant blame Obama

He's a piss poor leader who doesn't know what he's doing. I blame all
his failures on him...And I hate him for the fact that he's not smart
enough to know he's way over his head and needs to step down.

You just hate Barack Obama cuz he's black!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama was
attempting to get the 66 vote threshold for the New START treaty with
Russia, since we no longer had nuclear weapons inspectors in Russia.

These treaties are a joke, right along with Russian safeguards,
security, etc. It's just more bs promises that our government has
everything under control. Like it had everything under control before
9/11 and the like. (I wipe my ass with its promises)

the alternative to the treaty, would have allowed for increased
proliferation of nuclear weapons by both sides, and we would not be
able to monitor russian compliance with the New Start Treaty or
whether they were honoring NPT, or the fact that security at russian
nuclear missile silos are extremely lax, and that all of the weapons
grade uranium being smuggled on the black market was coming from
russia, so we had to have inspection teams at russian nuke sites to
verify security of their arsenal and to monitor treaty compliance, in
regards to New START. WE also reciprocated by allowing the russians to
verify that we as are they are required to make reductions in our
nuclear arsenals.

Regarding Entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid), The
funds are in trouble because

The payments are in jeopardy because Our government doesn't care about
the money it steals from us and our economy. It waste shitloads of it
on bs like building mosques in Afghanistan and paying whores to learn
not to drink to much in China.

While the republicans claim to have a Job Creation agenda

Both parties are filled with morons who think its the job of our
government to control our economy. (Insane)

 Also the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both Bush started,

And Barack could have ended them, day one. (But he wont do that
because he thinks it's the job of America to transform these countries
into America. He's bat shit Insane)

as stated earlier you have already proven that you are a moral
relativist, and a nihilist!!!!!!!
You want the Taliban to return to power in afghanistan, which is
exactly what will happen if we leave, and then they will be free to
rape children, cut off the noses of young girls who object to arranged
marriages, and stone femal adulterers to death!!!! Not to mention if
we pull out Al qaeda and the Taliban could potentially take over
Pakistan, since the ISI, is riddled with Al qaida sympathizers, and
its just a matter of time if we leave, that they will get a hold of
Pakistan's nuclear arsenal!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Currently the US is engaged with back channel peace negotiations with
the Taliban

What were you saying about the Nazi like regimes? So much for stopping
them... (Insane)

Also the cost of the Libyan operation is about 1 billion dollars

So cheap wars are more acceptable? Especially ones where we are
backing al Qaeda, right? (Insane)

Note: I don't demonize the government. There are clear things it
should be doing(protect individuals
from force and fraud).

Then why would be opposed to the Dodd-Frank Bill, that attempts to regulate

It drives mom and pop operations under and allows the too big to get
even bigger. It tells private citizens what to do with their money and
property. It creates Monopolies. It's a piece of shit bill that was
designed to favor big politically connected corporations. (Which is no
surprise after seeing Dodd and Frank's role in the housing mess)

You are so fuckin ignorant. One of the provisions of the Dodd-Frank
bill limits the amount of swipe fees big banks can charge stores every
time they use their mastercard or visa debit/credit card. Currently
the big banks charge your beloved Mom and Pops stores, 40 cents or
roughly 1 percent of the purchase price every time a customer makes a
purchase at their store, this is in addition to fees charged by
Mastercard and Visa to consumers every time they use their card. The
big banks racked up billions charging these fees. The Dodd-frank bill
with senator Dick Durbin's amendment attached to it would limit the
amount of swipe fee surcharges to 12 cents per transaction.

I argue for free market, free will and the right to allow people to
make their own choices and you argue for a giant all controlling, all
powerful government(worst kind of monopoly) that steals from the free
market and taxpayers..

If you are not rich there is no free will in the market place.. It is
an Oligapoly!!!

Our government(has monopoly on force) has done more to create
monopolies and kill freewill than anything the free market has done or
is doing.

Yah but you bitch about Verizon and AT&T being on the government dole,
when in fact they are not, they just have really good tax attorney's
like Michelle Bachman's of the world, so that Verizon can get of
paying its fair share in taxes cuz of all the loop holes in the tax
code, and becaus the Wireless broadband market is an Oligopoly, with
these two companies, pending AT&T's meger with T-Mobile, means that
now 80 percent of the market will be controlled by 2 companies. Also
AT&T is being sued by consumers in a class action suit, for charging
customers sometimes as much as 300 percent, for iPhone use they never
used!!! That's not capitalism, rather monopolistic
mercantilism!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.itworld.com/networking/166943/suit-charges-att-overcharges...

<Your link on Oligapoly at wiki>
For example(Oligapoly), as of fourth quarter 2008, Verizon, AT&T,
Sprint, Nextel, and T-Mobile together control 89% of the US cellular
phone market.

Yah dip shit here's my link, since all you are capable of is
"primitive accumulation!!!!"
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/lawsuit-claiming-at-t-is-over...
You should also know that several former republican appointed FCC
commissioners have taken consulting jobs with AT&T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<end>
These companies are perfect examples of what I said above. They are
politically connected, they get shit loads of government cash and tax
breaks, government regulations are designed to protect them and their
market share, they get shitloads of no bid government contracts,

Oh you are talking about Bush's sweet heart deal with former vice
president Dick Cheney's company, Haliburton/ Kellog Brown and Root,
that defrauded the american tax payer in Iraq reconstruction
contracts. Nice of you to be a fuckin moron!!!!!!!!!!!

etc.

They get tax breaks because they have people like Michelle Bachman
representing them.
Analysis: 12 Corporations Pay Effective Tax Rate of Negative 1.5%
on $171 Billion in Profits; Reap $62.4 Billion in Tax Subsidies
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/12corps060111.pdf
-excerpt-
Exxon Mobil, Boeing, Verizon, Others Illustrate Why Revenue-Raising
Reform is Needed
Washington, DC – To better inform the public and lawmakers about how
successful many American corporations have been in reducing or
eliminating their federal income taxes, Citizens for Tax Justice is
releasing a preview of its forthcoming major study of Fortune 500
companies and the taxes they paid — or failed to pay — over the
2008-10 period. Today’s release details the pretax U.S. profits,
federal taxes paid and effective tax rates of (in alphabetical
American Electric Power, Boeing, Dupont, Exxon Mobil, FedEx, General
Electric, Honeywell International, IBM, United Technologies, Verizon
Communications, Wells Fargo and Yahoo.

.And if they have the nerve to say "no" then
they're thrown in jail(or in some cases murdered by FBI agents raiding
their home).

I didnt agree with what happened at Ruby Ridge or Waco.

This isn't just those two instances. All Americans have to give our
government its dues. Our government has a complete monopoly on force
and can murder anyone in an instance for no reason at all. (Which is
why it should be limited)
And why it shouldn't be involved in bogus drug wars and the like.

while at the same time the reactionary White nationalist movement
recieved little federal attention

Maybe it would have gotten done if our government wasn't fighting
insane wars, funding our allies defense, locking up millions of people
in a silly drug war, etc)
There is a good chance the bombing would have never happened if our
government had been like it was designed(limited). Same could be said
for 9/11, which Osama claimed was because of the foreign policy you
support.

In your view we should never had the Social Security program, or
Medicare

No, I argue that a person should have a choice and should get to
choose where their money goes. If they choose to invest in such
things, then so be it. (Why do you hate free choice and free will?)

as usual tards like you resort to the ivory tower musings of the
Bourbon dynasty, before reality sets in and you get guillitoned, i.e.,
thrown from your hypocritical heartless perch!!!!!!!!!!

Only a sucker or someone who is rich and already is a trust funder
would make that argument.

I'm for the complete opposite. This is your argument, this is what
you're for.

Its the same argument that these corporate
types make about "Right to Work," intiatives trying to trick the
common man

Nobody is being tricked to do anything. (You're Insane)

Oh and you argue that the Right to work intiative, isnt really about
tricking people into leaving their unions. Without collective
bargaining workers have no power or leverage regarding their
wages!!!!!!!! Just look at walmart, they are anti-union and so they
pay less than comparably placed unionized retail sector jobs, like in
grocery stores. They also rarely offer health insurance and that's if
you are employed full time, so they will usually schedule you just
under the minimum requirement to qualify for health coverage under
state law so that they dont have to pay you health benefits. I Had
friends who worked at Walmart while going to college, they are the
evil empire!!!!!!!!! The Walton family who owns walmart is
collectively worth 80 billion dollars, and they get the most of their
product from sweatshop Communist chinese labor. You have no idea what
the fuck you are talking about when it comes to free will, neither did
Louis XVI did before he get his head cut off!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eat shit bitch!!!!!!
thomaswheat1975
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread...

<snip crazy ramblings>
You're a psychotic moron.